On this episode of The Passive Income Attorney Podcast, Seth is joined by Dan Handford, a titan in the multifamily investing industry. Dan shares his journey which includes starting multiple 7-figure businesses from scratch through delegation, automation and scale. Like many of us, Dan was searching for a way to reduce his tax liability and discovered multifamily real estate investing as the perfect vehicle. Dan is now one of the most successful real estate entrepreneurs in the game, and in this episode, he walks us through the 7 red flags you need to look out for when looking into your next passive investment. Enjoy!


“Be a master delegator…That’s how I’ve had the success that I have had…I have been successful at finding and identifying great, solid team members and hiring them in a way to give them the freedom that they need to be able to do things and then delegate a lot of tasks to them.”



[02:22] Who is the REAL Dan Handford?

[04:50] Selling skeletons in chiropractic school

[09:51] Discovering the best way to reduce  taxable liability

[12:06] Tips for listeners on how to allow yourself to delegate tasks  

[14:24] 7 red flags for passive apartment investing

[17:57] What are preferred returns and are they all the same?

[19:42] Having “skin in the game”

[20:54] Return ON capital vs return OF capital

[25:57] How to get started in passive real estate investing

[27:45] Traditional assets vs. alternative assets

[31:41] The Freedom Four: What is the best thing to keep your mind and body healthy?

[32:24] The Freedom Four: In an alternative universe what would you be doing?

[32:39] The Freedom Four: Where were you 5 years ago and where do you see yourself 5 years from now?

[33:39] The Freedom Four: How has passive income changed your life?





SETH: What’s going on everyone? Welcome to the Passive Income Attorney Podcast. I’ve got something really cool for you this week it’s called the Cash Flow Calculator. This thing is really nifty, so it’s a predictive spreadsheet matrix, and I know that sounds crazy, but really you just plug in your potential passive real estate investments into it and it will assimilate them and show you your projected returns overtime. You can literally quantify how to buy back your time piece by piece. Eventually will put together a more robust version and sell it but for now it’s 100 % free so grab it now while you still can at intelligentpassiveinvestor.com OK, on this show I try not to bring on 1000 real estate syndicators unless they have a legal background and they’re a lawyer or a former lawyer just so they can share their story about escaping the billable, but today we have one of the biggest names in the space and someone that I personally hold in very high regard Dan Handford. Dan is a true entrepreneur and has been since college he’s built multiple seven-figure businesses from the ground up including a series of orthopedic medical clinics and most recently a large-scale real estate investment company with hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets under management. He’s the founder of the multifamily investor nation in a group consisting of over 35k investors and syndicators and he’s also the host of the Multifamily Investor Nation Podcast without further ado Dan Handford.

SETH: Dan Handford in the flesh, the man, the myth, the legend. What’s going on brother

DAN: Nothing much at all set I’ll I’m actually lying there’s actually a bunch going on in the background but right now not much going on just you and I have a good conversation.

SETH: I love it man with appreciate you taking the time out your day. So yeah of course so you know you’ve been on so many different shows including your own so I’ll just start out an ask you know who is the real Dan Handford.

DAN: Wow, that’s a great question you know I am I’m a family man right out of the first because I try to do I try to create the lifestyle that I have around my family right instead of the other way around. So, I’m trying to create at the business that I want to have the family fill in the cracks I was actually years ago I actually my wife’s uncle but my wife’s uncle and at the time he wasn’t my wife so he was still my wife’s uncle but he wasn’t my wife was my wife if. It was a gentleman that worked for him and he had on his desk he had a jar and in that jar was a jar of walnuts, full walnuts, in the shells and rice and I asked him one day I was like I’m a little curious like what’s the purpose of this jar right here, and he said well this is a reminder for me. He said because by my family represents the walnuts everything else in life that I do represents the rice but he said if I put the rice in his jar first which is everything else, I don’t have enough time for my family but if I put the walnuts in first then everything else in life it’s in perfectly and it all fits. Ever since then that’s really kind of what allowed me to try to figure out you know it that’s how I want to structure my life and you’re really to me that’s what I try to do focus everything around the family and you know when the end navigation the business is right secondary.

SETH: I love that man it’s tough to you know a lot of people get that backwards right like they start focusing on the business and building a business and I kind of forget about the things that are really important which is the people in your life your family your friends and the things that are gonna last.

DAN: It’s true and about my wife and I always make it a point to do things with our family with our children as well. We have four children ranging from 10 years on the older side to three years I’m on the low end and so life is definitely busy I have three girls and a boy we always try to make time for them to even just last night recording this on Tuesday but I’m on Monday nights with our church we have a basketball men’s basketball program that we put together for an outreach program. I bring my eight -year-old son there with me and he goes he doesn’t usually play with everybody else cause he might get hurt you know but yeah I’ll practice or go grab some the balls and he’s always participating with him at one of the things that we’re doing.

SETH:  Yeah, that’s great that’s great all right well you know despite all that we have in a really diverse and kind of a unique listener base that might not know who you are and so even though you’re one of the biggest names in the space so maybe tell us a little bit your background and your stories so our listeners can just kind of get a frame on you.

DAN: Sure, so I actually years ago it started in chiropractic college right and in chiropractic college is when I started my very first business. My very first business was an online company and I still have it today it’s called shopanatomical.com and we sell all types of skeletons and skulls and brains and hearts and plastic models and adding models to colleges, doctors’ offices universities and any medical places all across the country around the world. I’ve had a company I started in chiropractic college because all of the students and chiropractic college need a spine model a model of the spine to learn all the different structures of what they’re going to be adjusting the rest of their life right. So, when I went out with the things that I heard in the in the class is that a spine model that was in the in the in the bookstore was priced way too high. So, for college students you know everything is too high right. I went into the bookstore and I was like I wonder if I can figure out who makes this and maybe just try to get a better price for it and resell it. At the bookstore they were selling it for 189.95 and I decided to go to the bookstore and figure out who the manufacturer was, found one of the distributors or the manufacturer which bass for today is one of our biggest competitors. But found a distributor and they told me they can get it to me $65 including the shipping. I was like I was completely stoked about that so I was like I’ll just mark it up by like five bucks but it’ll be in the kind of market or mine said that I have I don’t wanna sell it for $70 so I did it for 69.95. I put an order form together and I put a PayPal link together back then and I went through in front of each one of the classrooms in chiropractic school I basically announce that I was the spine model for 69.95 it is the exact same one at the bookstore for 189.95 and the first full week of selling those I had 80 orders with cash up front in hand. I didn’t wanna worry about IOUs from college students yeah I don’t have money upfront and it’s all 80 of the first week and then saw a lightbulb went off in my head I was like if I get sell 80 of those in the first week I want if I can go straight to the manufacturer and cut out the middle man. So that’s what I did I went straight to the manufacture I remember talking to the lady her name is Marilyn, talking to her she doesn’t work there anymore but her name is Marilyn I were talking to her and her going how many times a year can you do that I’m like well chiropractic school they go off of a quarter basis so every by four times a year you have a new student body coming in. Four times a year I could probably sell this many, and she said I tell you what I’ll set you up on our highest tier discount do you get the highest-level discount. So now that’s fine, the model is $42.48 and she said I’ll also throw in the shipping for it of course it went from just like a couple hundred bucks to some really nice money for a college in so that kind of started my into that online company and I have already had a background prior to getting into the chiropractic school of doing web design web hosting networking things like that so I took those skills built out a website for starters eBay that their product catalog open me up to all of their natty miles over 2000k products but I can now sell. So I started selling some of my eBay store by our website and even today we sell over $100,000 a month. It’s a seven-figure business and I have a team that runs out for me but that business is what allowed me to start my next business which was the chiropractic clinics. Then fast forward a little bit we actually took the chiropractic clinics and now have merged medical clinic because either I learned early on that I could only see so many patients an hour. Even though I was owning my own business I work for myself I still only could see so many patients an hour, plus every time I want to want to go on vacation, I still do pay the staff, start to pay utilities do the patio read so I was paying to go on vacation so I never want to go on vacation right. So I decided early on hire some associate chiropractor works for me and then fell in love with the medical side of it because I want more and more I didn’t have to do it right but I couldn’t do it so I was just a chiropractor not anything to do with by the medical side I started hiring on the medical doctor and the nurse practitioner and then we started to expand and now today we have for non-surgical orthopedic medical clinics that all we do is medical services those clinics. I have one here in Columbia, South Carolina, I have one in Charleston and then North Augusta South Carolina. Those cash flows I was receiving off those businesses because they’re all the businesses were debt-free including the clinics because of the cash flow receiving we are paying a lot of money to the government taxes. We really wanted to reduce our tax reliability, in the way for us to do that was real estate. I already so I want to I actually stepped away from the full-time clinic management promoted by COO to the CEO so I can step out. It’s been over three years since I’ve actually been in one of my clinics and he runs the daily operations for me now that business is passive for me as well. But the real estate side I didn’t want to start small I already accomplished a lot up to that point my life I didn’t want to go back and go start with single-family or small multi’s or anything like that. I went out of the gate hired a great mentor I was doing big things that I wanted to be able to do it and partner with him as well as not a group my first couple of deals in our very first deal with an $8.9 million deal, 130 units out of Greenville, Carolina. Fast forward to in the last year we closed $156 million worth of assets raise lower $61 million between four different assets in 20 20 and we’re on a great trajectory for 2021 as well.

SETH: Wow man that that’s incredible and I think you identified a couple of different issues that a lot of our listeners encounter on a regular basis and that’s it they’re trading time for money and they are paying a ton in taxes to the government because their W-2 employees. It seems like those are two of kind of the aha moment to need some pivots in you’re on your entrepreneurial career that made you kind of take out the box. Like well what can I do to fix these problems.

DAN:  it was it was it was it is a big decision for me because for one it’s hard right because when you’re in something all the time a lot of times it’s hard to step away and actually look at the overall picture of everything, but to me it was a very pivotal moment. I’m like the typical entrepreneur right or a business owner that they think that they can do everything better than everybody else. I still today had that problem like I still feel like I need to do everything better than everybody else and it’s a mindset issue for me I just I just have to realize that’s who I am and so I had to constantly battle that mindset, but I have to realize if I can hire other people to do what I can what I am doing and they can do it 85% as well as me It allows me to be able to kind of grow and expand and you’ll have the additional cash flows but I have the same problem trying to figure out what to do with it so I can reduce the tax liability.

SETH:  Yeah, let’s go into that a little bit because you know we talk a lot on here about delegation and automation and trying to just delegate some of our tasks and create more time for ourselves and you seem to be a master that you’ve done it multiple businesses. Do you have any I guess general tips for our listeners. Many of them are professionals like attorneys in and things like that but maybe just some general tips on how to get over that hump in and delegating some of the daily task that that kind of plague you from going as far as you can go.

DAN:  Sure, for me one of that one of the hardest things is again delegating task that I know that I can do. Obviously when you’re starting a business you have to do everything right; I mean you’re doing everything front of the front office or the back office to the janitorial. Right? So you have to build it you’d be able to do all that stuff but as you get revenue into the business you have to figure out what are some of the lower level task that you are doing right now and you can easily turn off to somebody else AND one of the flaws that I had early on is that, because I didn’t have a lot of revenue in the beginning I tried to hire people at the cheapest rate I could. Guess what you get? You cheapest labor right you got it the cheapest people. To me what I do now it Well I need to find somebody to takeoff a task for me I hire somebody and I pay them really well and I got a good quality person in that position is it always a 100 % perfect thing no it’s not nothing ever is but I’ll tell you the more I’ve started to try to attract higher quality people the more I’ve been surprised. It’s actually taking a lot more off of my plate to be able to delegate those things and try to do it on my own.

SETH: Yeah, I love that. I mean you get what you pay for really right?

DAN: It is a mindset thing though because in the beginning, especially when you don’t have a lot of revenue, you’re like I said to hide the cheapest person. You do the McDonald’s way were you trying to hide it at the lowest wage person you can I just make it a dummy proof as possible. But if you really truly want to grow and scale to meet a certain high-level task you need to find that high-level person for and you have to worry about babysitting them and micromanaging them.

SETH: Yeah, exactly when you’re starting out you’re like I don’t even wanna hire anybody at all let alone somebody that’s going to cost a lot of money. So you can just go for that low hanging fruit and ends up costing you more money than if you would’ve hired somebody a little bit higher quality.

DAN: Exactly, yeah.

SETH: Yeah, well let’s jump into the weeds a little bit here you know let’s switch gears to syndication. So whenever you’re looking at from a passive investing perspective, you know what are some about the red flags that listeners should be looking out far?

DAN: So I actually wrote an article about this recently it’s the seven red flags for passive apartment investing and if you want to take a look at that he could actually link with me on LinkedIn just got a linkwithdan.com and I’ll just take you straight to my LinkedIn profile just to connect with me there. There are several different things we can go through go through each one of them at a time and if you have time for all that we can go through all of them but one of the first things I look for as my wife and we invest in other operators. So, we’re not just investing in our own group we wanted additional diversification so right now our portfolio consists of 38 different LP investments with about 14 different operators right now. So we will put together the list of these seven red flags to help investors understand what they should or should I be looking for. One of the first things in there is that you want to make sure that the people that you align with in an operator in a syndication is you want to make sure they have some form of background and success in business. OK, the is why I say success because there’s a lobby let me know I have a have run a business right but they run it into the ground. I want somebody who has a track record who has a successful track record and actually successfully running a business. That’s one of the biggest things first right off the bat I wanna make sure I have it is that silly me that all the partners on the team have to have that but I want to see at least one of the managing partners have some for a background in business. It will allow us to be able to fly me to be able to feel comfortable and they know how to make pivots and big decisions when it comes in as when it’s necessary. One of the other red flags that I always look for as I want to make sure that that’s a red flag if there’s if somebody’s things are present and I don’t do it so I can there’s not somebody present that has a successful background of business that I want to best be the next thing that I look for is are you sure that they have preferred returns offered on the other property. So, I want to see a preferred return at the very minimum usually between about that 6-8% as usual looking for 6-8% preferred return. If they’re at they’re not doing a preferred return it usually means that that operator is tight on finances and they need the monthly cash flow for them self to live off so they can quit their job or whatever they’re doing. For me I don’t want to have that person manage my money right and it’s usually somebody who is working part time that’s one of the red flags. Somebody who is part time in the business I don’t want somebody who is working a corporate America job and who’s work on a W-2 and they’re trying to manage my investment in the night and the weekends. I know this is this thing types of investments are not part time investments. You have to have somebody full-time effort modern investments single week and every single day to make sure that they’re successful. That’s what I always look for is making sure that there is somebody that is full-time in the business right. Now that doesn’t mean somebody who’s maybe you know active in the business, they can’t still be part of a team. They can still be part of a team and do and fill other roles and responsibilities but not be the main operator in a particular project ways to get started in this business but I don’t want that to be the main thing that somebody is doing and then trusting them with my funds.

SETH: Yeah, yeah that makes sense in going back to the preferred return piece of our lives is it don’t know you know, why is that advantageous for them?

DAN: So in that waterfall structure that’s the first hurdle and the waterfall structure where you actually have 100 % of the cash flows going to you as the investor before the operator gets any type of split. In it what are the other things that I actually talk about is near the thought behind a true preferred return or a eBay Perry pursue preferred return. To me I always look for a true prefer for return. A true prefer return is where you’re receiving 100% of the cash flows and then there’s no catch up. Where the operator actually goes back at that point and says OK now I’m gonna catch myself up as if we were dating and I stay the 2020 splits whatever it is up to that point. To me the a refinance if you have it if there’s a refinance mortgage in the underwriting, big red flag. To me I run the other way. I see that because that means or the deal is so tight and there are there are there are the fees are so high that in order to make it work a half a bottle and under and I am a refinance in it. I’ve been a deal before where the model refinance and it didn’t turn out the way they projected. It is because they that you don’t know I’m on a refinance when and if you’ll be able to do it It’s hard to time that it’s all the terms the interest rate the loan to value is all those could be fluctuating so you don’t really know for sure what those terms are going to be whenever you get to that point. Whether you have a year and a half two years three years down the road so I always don’t want and I never want to see a refinance and saw that underwriting as well at al.

SETH: Yeah, that makes sense man. Where are we at number five?

DAN: Number five now and I hope I can get all these things. Another one is going to be skin in the game right. I want to see that the operator has skin in the game. Now they just roll in there at their acquisition fee what still scam to me right now getting paid that I don’t have a problem with that but I do like to see a minimum of $100,000. So if their minimum investment is $50,000 I still like to see $100k right I want to see they have some significant skin in the game. Whether their role in the acquisition fee in or not but then the one I preferred it about 5 to 10 % of that additional equity being put in by the operators. That’s what we do at our group is make sure that we as a group I put in 5 to 10% initial equity on each one of our deals.

SETH: Gotcha yeah that makes sense I’ve heard that before as well with the people saying well it’s part of the acquisition fee, but you know that’s money to cash it would’ve went in your pocket anyway. So I might as well be the same thing.

DAN: So, the first one was a successful background of business we have a preferred return. Full-time in the business and we did this last one which was remember?

SETH: Oh yeah skin in the game brother.

DAN: All right so the net the next one is going to be making sure that in the distributions in the waterfall that the preferred returns or actually a return on capital not a return of capital. Because, again if you don’t want if you understand what unreturned capital contributions are that you put in 100,000 and throughout the life of a deal as there’s a capital about usually that cat hundred thousand dollar initial capital doesn’t go down it’s better if you have a refinance or something middle happens on it and it erased you gets a return $30,000 of your initial capital now that I return the capital contribution is now $70,000. Well your preferred return calculated off of that unreturned capital contribution wherever you are throughout the life of a deal if your distributions are calculated as a return on our return of your capital now your unreturned capital contribution account is going down every time you receive a distribution. So that also means we prefer return calculations are also going down so it helps the operator tremendously because they can show that they’re actually no I’m reducing the amount of money there having to pay each month or each quarter how they’re making a distribution allows for them to have better cash flow is it also allows him to hit their hurdles faster too. So it only helps to be the operator not the passive investor, because sometimes people go out with you or if it’s a return of your capital then you have to pay taxes on it. Well I’m already getting depreciation anyway on my cash flows at our study that so I’m still not paying for it even on my return of turn on capital right so they can show that you watch those different nuances sometimes I will be at doesn’t get put in for various operators you just got a watch that very carefully because of it if it’s switched up a little bit on you you’ll be surprised at what your return actually is on a deal.

SETH: Yeah, for sure where would a passive investor to look for something like that?

DAN:  Always in the PPM, because they’re not usually going to put that inside any other documents other than the PPM and if it’s not int PPM hen you better be asking about it because that’s something that should be disclosed inside those documents. I’m trying to pull up this next is article on here I have a I talked about it just the other day on our on our website passiveinvesting.com there’s a knowledge center on there. If you go there that’s where we kind of put a lot of different articles about the unreturned capital contributions and very things like that so that’ll background a business. Number two is part time operator, number three is only one managing partner. So this is actually a big one that I should’ve touched on earlier on which is are having more than one managing partner on a deal. The reason why is because I had a friend of mine had a New York City and he invested $200,000 in a project with a single operator out of Georgia and he brought in a friend of his and he invested 100k, no $200,000 as well. About six months into the deal they couldn’t contact to get a hold of the main operator anymore. They tried to call him try to email them they send somebody by the office of the house whatever nobody there right they called the property management company they couldn’t get them either and he would talk to you about anything because they weren’t the main operator either just a passing investor. The money was still there so he didn’t run off with the money or we’re not the property it’s like that. But they couldn’t get a hold of them and they’re thinking about how do we get access to this property and the problem is in those operating a lot of time you have to go through arbitration and there’s conflicts. How do you arbitrate with somebody who’s not there? Now they had to go through the court process to get a judge to issue the of the ruling allowed to take it over right at this possible that his operator could’ve just went ghost on them right and maybe, not on purpose but like they went down to Mexico or Germany or wherever and got in a car accident and died nobody reported it back to anybody or any other investors. So for me in our investments with my wife and I we always make sure that there is more than one partner. Preferably three but at least two so 2 to 3 but I like it before five I started a little bit uncomfortable gets to me that sort of feel a little bit more like too many cooks in the kitchen if you will. So I wanna make sure that there’s enough people in there but not too many people that are there actually manage that particular business.

SETH: Yeah. Yeah that makes sense. I mean when you’ve got five people seven people that had decision making power and stuff to come to our to agreement on even simple things.

DAN:  Yep so the next one on there was no preferred return or preferred return with ketchup, and then the number five was modeling to refinance which we talked about that and then distributions as a return of capital and the no skin in the game. So I think we covered all seven of them.

SETH: Nailed it. So it sounds like a lot to digest right so you know this these listeners of ours that are attorneys and doctors. They don’t have a ton of time because they’re busy, busy professionals and they work a ton hours a week and they’re looking at these alternative investment vehicles I mean what’s a good strategy to get started for these guys and me how are you know what a good first step.

DAN: I think one of the best things you can do is go out and interview various operators I just asked a lot of these questions and in align yourself and partner with people that are great solid reputable operators. Because most of our investors are repeat investors right so we just did a deal I want our most recent deals a day we closed December 2020 we had we did an analysis on that we had over 62 % of those investors or repeat investors. So those are investors that you’re not looking through all of our documents fine tooth comb every single time they’re investing they trust as they rely on us to go to deal with, they were going to do and not throw weird things into these operating agreements. They expect us to perform the way we have always performed in so they continue to invest with us cause we provide those results. But you have to be able to find other operators that can do the same thing if they are out there we’re not the only group of doubt that’s gonna be able to do a lot of these great things for you and watch out for the investors, but to be one of the best things you can do is spend some time initially going out take this list of these red flags and ask him how do you do that do you do this do you have this do you have this. Find operators that you want to align with that you can know like and trust and build a relationship with them and truly create a relationship with them right. Don’t just try to jump on the email list and that’s it. You need to be able to have that connection with somebody on the teams that if you have issues if you have problems you can have that access you have that transparency as well.

SETH: Yeah, I love that man I may need to get you to really just start with that list of seven things. That’s a great place to start and then just get on the phone meet them in person whatever. Have that conversation you can kind of have that gut feeling whether not you vibe with them whether or not you trust them. Yep. Yep. So you know a lot of our listeners also are mainly just in traditional assets there in stocks and bonds and mutual funds and I just like to get your opinion on in a compare and contrast in the two. I mean traditional assets versus these alternative assets that you know makes up our world I mean you know how do you get traditional investors can make that jump into alternative assets and what are some of the things that some of the benefits of them.

DAN: Sure, most of the investments that come to us or ones that are already ready and there are you saying I’m done with the stock market I’m done. I want out right and I think for me what the way I look at it is that there’s a lot of volatility when it comes to the stock market. To me I don’t I don’t I might have a little bit I don’t have my I do have a little bit in the stock market but I don’t have a ton. Most of my net worth were at the most by real estate network is inside of multifamily right and we’re also in 2021 going into the self-storage space as well. Because there’s three things I do really well in a down economy and an upper economy. Number one is multifamily number two is self-storage do you know the third one is that liquor stores alcohol you got it. Those are the top three that do really well that’s what we’re going after him. The biggest the biggest thing that will look like question we have to answer it again.

SETH: We’re just talking about comparing contrasting traditional stock market.

DAN: So, for me I don’t like to be in the stock market myself because there’s a lot of volatility and I find myself constantly looking at it and you know I’m getting worried about it up and down and all my goodness should I buy or should i seller whatever the case may be it’s me it’s a lot more stressful for me to do that and I’d be worried about you know world market conditions as much because I am now locking my money up inside of an asset that is going to cash flow nicely. It’s cash flowing from day one and I’m not gonna have to worry about these abs and flows right. Across the deck across a Stock or Bond or whatever the case maybe.

SETH: Yeah. especially nowadays it’s easy for people to kind of forget about that because everything especially stock market just been up up up and you know they have Tesla stock we have bitcoin and it’s just through the roof, but it’s gonna come down. That’s the roller coaster of the stock market I mean you can just get affected by everything all around the world not even just in the USA and people just kind of get caught up in that whirlwind and then when it comes back down reality is going to strike and just you know to me real estate is just such a more stable investment. You can get consistent cash flow and appreciation overtime.

DAN: Yeah, and I think the stock market to is it I always follow and I got my iPhone and I always like my ticker is like that I’m not in most of the ones that I follow but I’m always it to me it’s hot stocks are always like a old man ever if I would’ve done that if I would’ve invested in that right I could’ve made x amount. It’s usually the same way when you invest in your like man if I would’ve exited earlier It’s up to me it’s just too much speculation for me it might concern and worry for me to want to put my money in the stock market.

SETH: Yep agreed same here man before jumping in the freedom for just one last gold nugget for listeners.

DAN: One last Golden Nugget I would say is if you it would be for that going back to the delegation side of things, I would say make sure you learn how to delegate. Be a master delegator. Because to me that’s how I’ve had the success that I have had is I have just been successful at finding and identifying great solid team members to join our team and be able to hire them in a way and give them the freedom that they need to be able to do things and then delegate a lot of tasks to them.

SETH: Awesome. Awesome. All right let’s jump in the freedom four

SETH: What’s the best thing you do to keep your mind and body healthy?

DAN: So I am I’m a regular avid reader of the Bible and so that’s one of the things I do on a regular basis or a course of a part of my local church as well, and then I also work out three times a week with one out with a personal trainer and then on the off on the off days I’m usually doing basketball racquetball and I try to stay fit

SETH: Nice. Nice they want to play basketball right now?

DAN: They do we’re getting together and playing a little less scrimmage like, no we had to add a team and altimeter a group together about leaven 12 guys got out there and played for a little bit so.

SETH: Yeah, they’re not allowed to do that in California.

DAN: You can always move to the East Coast.

SETH: In an alternate universe where you were involved in your current businesses what would you be doing?

DAN: You know honestly I would probably be a missionary overseas it’s doing something completely different or what I’m doing right now.

SETH:  Very cool very cool. Where were you at five years ago and where do you see yourself in five years from now.

DAN: so I mean five years ago I was you know working in my business and putting out fires every day and you know it while where I see myself in the next five years is continuing to grow the passiveinvesting.com brand to a and a bolted billion dollar company with assets with multi billion dollars in assets so our first goal is to get to the building assets under management which right now on a tractor to get there by the end of 2022 to 2023 and so we have our goals in place to go to get to that point and so that’s where we are we see ourselves in five years ago to continue to grow our wealth alongside of our investors wealth and we know that the only way that we can do that is to make sure that we structure things in a line ourselves with our investors because number one were investors in our projects first.

SETH: Yeah, no doubt in my mind you’ll get there brother. How is passive income been come made your life better?

DAN: Honestly it has a change my life a bit as far as the passive better come from real estate and I say that because we already have a great income coming from the clinics had a great income coming from other businesses that we run in so the real estate income has changed my life at all he definitely is great to have and it’s allowed to go to have some additional safety and security and I have to worry about some ebs and flows and what happened to the other businesses so I would say when I say nothing but I Lifestyle out of the fact that it’s changed our safety and security blanket If you will. Because we have quite a bit in a basket down so the multifamily real estate side of things.

SETH: Yeah well, I mean safety and security goes a long ways. I’m mean a lot of people’s biggest problem is money and where the next paycheck is going to come from so whenever you have that has been, there’s some real estate or a different business on my neck and that just gives you the confidence to kind of grow into the person that you can become. Awesome Dan well where can our listener find out more about you?

DAN: You can go to linkwithdan.com to connecting on LinkedIn I do read a lot of articles around these times we talked about today and I post them out there on Linkedin.com It just brings you straight to my LinkedIn profiles. You can also go to our website passiveinvesting.com and if you wanna join someone about future properties there’s a little button on the top right hand corner it says join the passive investor club click on that fill out the form and one of our team members will jump on a phone call with you discuss your investment goals and see if we’re right fit for you.

SETH: Awesome all right Dan really appreciate you having come in on the show today.

DAN: Awesome thanks!

SETH: Dan Handford doing big things wherever he goes and whatever he does whether it’s medical clinics or real estate he is just a true entrepreneur a titan in the industry. I was really psyched to have them on the share day there’s so many great takeaways from that interview especially in connection with delegation and automation in their importance to scaling any business. If you can delegate a task to someone and they can do it at least 80 % as well as you think you can do it, it’s a worthwhile affair, so you can focus on the unique things that only you can truly do so again it really boils down to creating more time and more freedom. To truly jump into my world I’d love for you guys to join EPIC, the Esquire Pass Investor Club by going to passiveincomeattorney.com and clicking “join the club.” Also check out all the other great content and freebies on the site. Until next time folks, enjoy the journey!